Argumentative Outline: Plato's initial argument

Question: Do you agree with Premise 1 and Premise 2? Is this what Plato is telling us, the relevant passage in the Republic (451c-452a)?

Premise 1: Some women are naturally suited to being guardians.

Premise 2:Women shouldbe trained to do the job best suited to them, even if they are guardians.

Conclusion:Women in the kallipolis should receive the same education as men.

Or is Premise 1 and or Premise 2 wrong? The Conclusion is right because it was given to be correct.

Question: From the relevant passage in the Republic (451c-452a), supply premises which entail this conclusion; that is, premises which, if true, mean the conclusion must be true.

Premise 1: Some women are naturally suited to being guardians.

Premise 2:Women shouldbe trained to do the job best suited to them, even if they are guardians.

Question: Briefly discuss the motivation(s) Plato provides or assumes for each premise; that is discuss the reason(s) Plato provides or assumes for the truth of each premise. For example, what reasons does Plato provide for Premises 1 and 2? Please read the relevant passage shown below.

Premise 1: Some women are naturally suited to being guardians.

Premise 2:Women shouldbe trained to do the job best suited to them, even if they are guardians.

The relevant passage in the Republic (451c-452a)

[451c] But maybe this way is right, that after the completion of the male drama we should in turn go through with the female,¹especially since you are so urgent."

"For men, then, born and bred as we described there is in my opinion no other right possession and use of children and women than that which accords with the start we gave them. Our endeavor, I believe, was to establish these men in our discourse as the guardians of a flock²?" "Yes."

[451d] "Let us preserve the analogy, then, and assign them a generation and breeding answering to it, and see if it suits us or not." "In what way?" he said. "In this. Do we expect the females of watch-dogs to join in guarding what the males guard and to hunt with them and share all their pursuits or do we expect the females to stay indoors as being incapacitated by the bearing and the breeding of the whelps while the males toil and have all the care of the flock?" "They have all things in common,"

[451e] he replied, "except that we treat the females as weaker and the males as stronger." "Is it possible, then," said I, "to employ any creature for the same ends as another if you do not assign it the same nurture and education?" "It is not possible." "If, then, we are to use the women for the same things as the men,

[452a] we must also teach them the same things." "Yes." "Now music together with gymnastic was the training we gave the men." "Yes." "Then we must assign these two arts to the women also and the offices of war and employ them in the same way." "It would seem likely from what you say," he replied. "Perhaps, then," said I, "the contrast with present custom¹would make much in our proposals look ridiculous if our words²are to be realized in fact." "Yes, indeed," he said. "What then," said I, "is the funniest thing you note in them? Is it not obviously the women exercising unclad in the palestra.