they will fall into a spiritual torpor" Let me be frank with you. There are several things about Murray's position that I find troubling. The biggest problem is the words and terms that he uses. For instance, where we might use the words help or charity, he uses the word "reward". This suggests that charity is somehow a reward to people for having achieved poverty. This position also suggests that those who are in poverty somehow deserve being poor. Then there's that whole "people... do nothing to improve their situations." Now, what are the actual statistics that support that claim? Is there statistical data that supports his claim? Where we would even find those kinds of statistics