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So go back in time to the late '90s. And you have a lot of companies that are getting - that say they are just

So go back in time to the late '90s. And you have a lot of companies that are getting - that say they are just getting pummeled by class action after class action after class action. And these lawsuits, they say, are incredibly expensive for them because if they try to take them to - in front of a jury, they get killed, and if they sell them, that's also expensive. And so they said that they were paying out billions of dollars just to settle these lawsuits, some of which, they said, were just totally frivolous, meritless cases. And so lawyers working for these companies were scrambling to figure out a solution. How do you prevent these class-action lawsuits? And one lawyer, a man in Philadelphia, said he had an idea. He remembered back when he was a younger lawyer using an arbitration clause when he was helping a thrift, a savings and loan company. And so he wondered if his credit card company clients started taking those arbitration clauses and putting in a class-action waiver into those clauses, whether they could insulate themselves, protect themselves from those class actions. And so he started advising clients to do that. And then, around 1999, he starts meeting with lawyers and representatives of other companies. And they have a series of meetings that begin in July of 1999 and span for many years. And during those meetings, they talk about - they strategize about the ways that they can make sure that arbitration clauses are upheld by state court judges - that they're impervious to legal challenges. And they talk about the benefits of arbitration. And for that group, their victory, their real kind of coup, came in 2010 because you asked, you know, how did we end up from state court judges and lower court judges that said, hey, these class-action bans are unfair, to suddenly a world in which the judges are really powerless to overturn these clauses? And what happened was the Supreme Court.

How do you understand that these class action bans have unfairly and suddenly become a world where judges really don't have the power to overturn these provisions?

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